DJI vs Skydio Privacy Concerns

[VEGASROBBI]

I thought this was very interesting, especially since it was posted by Blade Strike(Ken Booth), a DJI rep. My DJI GO 4 App continued to grow and run in the background of my tablet so I removed it. I do feel safer with Parrot and SD.

DJI Privacy Analysis Validation

Photo by Mitch Nielsen on Unsplash DJI Privacy Analysis Validation Given the recent controversy with DJI drones, a defense and publi...

blog.grimm-co.com

 

[skydioconvert]

I thought this was very interesting, especially since it was posted by Blade Strike(Ken Booth), a DJI rep. My DJI GO 4 App continued to grow and run in the background of my tablet so I removed it. I do feel safer with Parrot and SD.

DJI Privacy Analysis Validation

Photo by Mitch Nielsen on Unsplash DJI Privacy Analysis Validation Given the recent controversy with DJI drones, a defense and publi...

blog.grimm-co.com

Where and when did Blade Strike post this....link?

What privacy info do you believe is being transmitted that would benefit the Chinese?

 

[VEGASROBBI]

DJI Go4 Android , Again DJI? - RC Groups

Alert DJI Go4 Android , Again DJI? Multirotor Drone Talk

www.rcgroups.com

Interesting to see the Phanboys deal with it, seems the winds are changing.

 

[skydioconvert]

Thanx for link ....

Any opinion on my 2nd question?

 

[VEGASROBBI]

Well I'm not an expert but Kevin Finisterre proved DJI had access to all the vital records your tablet has access too and was posting it on unsecure websites. Credit card, driver license, location, images..... you name it they had access to it. Fortunately the US Military dropped DJI in 2017 due to this concern, think the location and images of our armed forces were accessible to the Chinese. DJI as much as fessed up to it and launched the government drone but it's difficult to get confidence back IMO.

 

[Portolo]

What privacy info do you believe is being transmitted that would benefit the Chinese?

Depends on who the user is, and where the drones are flying.

By having a software updater that operates outside of Google's app store, DJI could easily spear fish high value targets with custom executables. They could equally target high value locations that they wished further scrutinize, then side-load custom updates only to users who regularly flew in those areas.

DJI themselves would have little reason to do this, but because DJI is based in a dictatorship, the company has no recourse if Chinese government officials knock on their door and demand this access. While were a western government to make a similar demand of a drone maker based in their nation, that drone maker could appeal the order though the courts, or even go to the press.

 

[skydioconvert]

Well I'm not an expert but Kevin Finisterre proved DJI had access to all the vital records your tablet has access too and was posting it on unsecure websites. Credit card, driver license, location, images..... you name it they had access to it. Fortunately the US Military dropped DJI in 2017 due to this concern, think the location and images of our armed forces were accessible to the Chinese. DJI as much as fessed up to it and launched the government drone but it's difficult to get confidence back IMO.

I followed Kevin in many posts he made on Github quite a while ago and he is definitely a guy that knows what he is talking about.

I just don't see how drones flown by consumers or first responders in the USA could be used to send China any useful military information. Makes sense to prohibit the use of DJI (or any other foreign made) drone for our military but when it comes to safeguarding our privacy that's a war that was lost long ago.

 

[skydioconvert]

Depends on who the user is, and where the drones are flying.

By having a software updater that operates outside of Google's app store, DJI could easily spear fish high value targets with custom executables. They could equally target high value locations that they wished further scrutinize, then side-load custom updates only to users who regularly flew in those areas.

DJI themselves would have little reason to do this, but because DJI is based in a dictatorship, the company has no recourse if Chinese government officials knock on their door and demand this access. While were a western government to make a similar demand of a drone maker based in their nation, that drone maker could appeal the order though the courts, or even go to the press.

High value targets???

 

[Portolo]

I just don't see how drones flown by consumers or first responders in the USA could be used to send China any useful military information.

Can easily think of dozens of uses an adversary nation would benefit from that are not directly related to US military assets and bases.

Industrial espionage. Monitoring production of vital goods. Monitoring and documenting critical infrastructure. It goes on and on.

The security services of most nations have divisions dedicated to each of these roles. Drones can make many of these tasks far easier and far more deniable. For even if the authorities catch one of these drones in the act, the pilot will be entirely ignorant to the use their drone is being put.

 

[skydioconvert]

Wow... industrial espionage (and any other threat you list) is done much more easily and reliably with well placed moles within an organization.

Sorry I just can't buy your conspiracy theory.... Final Answer reply

 

[Portolo]

Wow... industrial espionage (and any other threat you list) is done much more easily and reliably with well placed moles within an organization.

It is not like the movies.

Human intelligence is the most difficult form of foreign intelligence and carries the most risk. There's no diplomatic immunity for moles. If caught, they face the potential of a lifetime behind bars.

And there's nothing "easy" about installing a human mole, especially in an ITAR regulated industry. The US ITAR regime controls both military and non-military "dual use" industries. Non-US nationals are prohibited by law from working in these industries, this includes the entirety of the burgeoning US space industry. It may now even include Skydio themselves.

You asked how DJI's technology could be used by China. You have been given detailed answers. You clearly don't want to believe that these products can be misused. You are sadly mistaken.

 

[VEGASROBBI]

I trust nothing of the CCP or their influence on DJI. To now see these American proponents and reps of DJI post this is telling. Rather than protect and remain silent they are speaking out.

Of coarse National intelligence would be the biggest concern and I have little doubt it has been gathered, not just by drones but other Chinese electronic devices. Everyday we are seeing the theft of intellectual property by the Chinese, I think I just saw a story on a spy or something held up in San Francisco. I have nothing against the Chinese people I think they are victims here too.

Anyway when it comes to the average consumer if I remember correctly Kevin proved enough personal information was gathered by DJI and then open sourced to allow hackers to hack you credit card and other financial data. My business CC gets hacked about every 45 days because we use it so much and in many cases it is Chinese companies.

Risk vs return, I choose to not take the risk since my DJI drones perform so poorly for what I do.

 

[Portolo]

High value targets???

Politicians. Top bureaucrats. Captains of industry.

Because the DJI updater side-loads its updates outside of the Google store, DJI's updater could send different updates to different users. When high value DJI users had been identified, the DJI updater could send custom payloads of malware specifically and only onto devices owned by those high value targets.

The drone itself would be irrelevant. The target need not ever actually fly the drone, they'd only need to load the software. Once DJI's side-loading updater is installed on the personal devices of high value targets, it would have the potential to monitor all of the digital actions and communications of those individuals.

 

[Portolo]

ARS Technica now has an article on these revelations.

Chinese-made drone app in Google Play spooks security researchers

DJI Go 4, installed more than 1 million times, can execute arbitrary code.

arstechnica.com

 

[VEGASROBBI]

I think a lot of the supporters DJI had in their first round over security concerns feel betrayed. You could get banned off RCG by these guys if you suggested Frank Wang farted at some point in his life they were that protective; in fact I was.

 

[Ridefreak]

Well I'm not an expert but Kevin Finisterre proved DJI had access to all the vital records your tablet has access too and was posting it on unsecure websites. Credit card, driver license, location, images..... you name it they had access to it. Fortunately the US Military dropped DJI in 2017 due to this concern, think the location and images of our armed forces were accessible to the Chinese. DJI as much as fessed up to it and launched the government drone but it's difficult to get confidence back IMO.

Nobody should really be surprised by this, the military and most big companies who deal with China are well aware of this kind of thing. Chinese citizens don't have privacy like we expect here in the US, (not that ours is all that great) But it's been proven many times they think nothing of a collecting data without permission even stealing it which they are very good at. The fact that they purposely attempt to hide some of what's going on in the app tells the true story. Zoom does similar things and has been called out on it, yet people still use it like crazy AND it's not been fixed, ether has the DJI app despite plenty of time since the issues were identified.

Given an acceptable choice I'll buy an American product over it's Chinese counterpart. I don't blame DJI as a company, I like to think they are an unwilling participant but that doesn't change anything. The app is an easy fix, you have to ask yourself, why hasn't it been corrected? It's not like they didn't have enough time to bring it into compliance. That's suspicious but again no surprise.

From a national perspective the Chinese want us to buy their products but don't be fooled into thinking they are our friends.

 

[Ridefreak]

Business as usual

 

[VEGASROBBI]

Here's more:

Scientist Wanted By FBI Is Hiding In China's San Francisco Consulate

The news comes amid deepening tensions between the U.S. and China over alleged spying

time.com

Popular Chinese-Made Drone Is Found to Have Security Weakness

Researchers found a potential vulnerability in an app that helps power the drones, highlighting U.S. officials’ concerns that Beijing could get access to information about Americans.

www.nytimes.com

What gets me is the Americans who are blind too, or contributed to the schemes. It does appear the winds of change are appearing, at least in the drone community. The US military took Chinese drones serious years ago now finally were seeing the staunchest DJI supporters speak out, they have too to save face.

This is Blade Strike, DJI Facebook Supporter, Multi-forum supporter, enterprise....

"I wouldn’t use any device with DJI that has sensitive or private information on it currently.

I agree, that them doing this twice now is something very concerning.. the excuses are not working as well. It’s almost laughable that they think they can get away with this.."

Wow

 

[skydioconvert]

Business as usual

Business is just warfare by another name.... The Chinese have been at it a LOT longer than we have but my money is on all the advantages that a free society brings to the table.

Still believe we can take what's in Sun Tzu book The Art of War and beat them at their own game...

P.S. The Germans studied Patton, Ulysses S. Grant studied George Washington .... break throughs come from the least expected of places.

 

[JAWS]

Trojan Horse anyone?