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VEGASROBBI

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Well I have a rule of thumb if I can't see it then assume the drone can't see it. I'm use to flying without OA, Anafi gets great shots but you have to stay on the sticks.

It took a while to get confidence in launch and forget but my SD2 has earned my confidence. I've let it fly past small branches(grouped) with no problem; but if there is a single branch by itself I can see that being a issue.
 

dougcjohn

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Sorry for your accident, and interesting to hear the estimated cost to repair gimble. Wow, pricey repair!

Until reading the manual, I wasn’t aware the S2 had a list of things it will not avoid. I was accustomed to DJI’s sensors. Moving objects: People, moving cars, bouncing wires, basically anything that moves will not be avoided. Avoided objects are stationary... I also noted the section on wires smaller than .5”. Also discovered, during a landing it will not avoid anything... if tree, house in path it will fly into them.

Is it possible it was windy and the branches swaying or moving? Had you initiated a landing?

I had placed the S2 low (6 ft) to the road, while bicycling toward the S2. It was doing a beautiful job avoiding bushes, wires, poles, mailboxes, parked cars... Then a car approached, and the driver avoided the S2, if not it would have contacted. At first I couldn’t understand the S2 not avoiding a large mass (car)... prompted a in-depth read.

It’s all optical, no other type of OA sensors. For sports, such as cyclist, or any sport where several athletes are moving, that’s an important variable. To make advertising clips (Pre-staged scene) focusing on one Rider, it won’t avoid the Others in the group of any size if in motion.
 

Ridefreak

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Sorry for your accident, and interesting to hear the estimated cost to repair gimble. Wow, pricey repair!

Until reading the manual, I wasn’t aware the S2 had a list of things it will not avoid. I was accustomed to DJI’s sensors. Moving objects: People, moving cars, bouncing wires, basically anything that moves will not be avoided. Avoided objects are stationary... I also noted the section on wires smaller than .5”. Also discovered, during a landing it will not avoid anything... if tree, house in path it will fly into them.

Is it possible it was windy and the branches swaying or moving? Had you initiated a landing?

I had placed the S2 low (6 ft) to the road, while bicycling toward the S2. It was doing a beautiful job avoiding bushes, wires, poles, mailboxes, parked cars... Then a car approached, and the driver avoided the S2, if not it would have contacted. At first I couldn’t understand the S2 not avoiding a large mass (car)... prompted a in-depth read.

It’s all optical, no other type of OA sensors. For sports, such as cyclist, or any sport where several athletes are moving, that’s an important variable. To make advertising clips (Pre-staged scene) focusing on one Rider, it won’t avoid the Others in the group of any size if in motion.
The SD2 doesn't track multiple subjects well enough to film a group reliably.
 

skydioconvert

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Yup....This is only the very early beginning of AI ... for AI to track multiple targets reliably along with excellent OA is really many many many years into the future.

Baby steps is all anyone can realistically expect so early into the game...
 

dougcjohn

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The SD2 doesn't track multiple subjects well enough to film a group reliably.
Yep, agree... although wasn't wanting to track multiple subjects. My point was 1 subject and treat the others as objects to avoid... and that isn't available since the other subjects are moving.
 

Ridefreak

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It will avoid other subjects just like it does a tree or bush, from what I can tell the problem starts when the other object/subject is closing in on the drone or coming at it. It will avoid a moving subject that's going in the same direction, often I've witnessed it get out of the way of other riders but they were always moving in the same direction as the drone.

From what I can tell it's got to do with the closure rate between the drone and the subject coming at it. When the drone is flying fast it's looking out further, making decisions earlier. When it's going slower it's not looking out (ahead) near as far and something closing in on it appears in the avoidance system basically with little or no time to make a decision, especially if the other subject is moving faster. When both the drone and the subject are moving slow it moves out of the way as you would expect.

This is what I suspect is happening; the avoidance works in excess of 30mph, if the drone is flying 20mph and the other vehicle or person is coming at it at 10mph there's a 30mph closure rate, the avoidance knows the drone is flying @ 20 so it's avoidance is configured for a max of 20mph closure rate. Here comes something basically at 10mph higher then it expects and it doesn't get out of the way fast enough.

I've watched it react to obsticles at different speeds and it definately is looking further out the faster it's going. It's easily seen in the videos I've posted.
 
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skydioconvert

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Yep, agree... although wasn't wanting to track multiple subjects. My point was 1 subject and treat the others as objects to avoid... and that isn't available since the other subjects are moving.
Avoiding means quick decisions that are based on some "still" early on camera capabilities. It would be nice if that happened but even military grade system aren't there yet.
 

dougcjohn

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It will avoid other subjects just like it does a tree or bush, from what I can tell the problem starts when the other object/subject is closing in on the drone or coming at it. It will avoid a moving subject that's going in the same direction, often I've witnessed it get out of the way of other riders but they were always moving in the same direction as the drone.

From what I can tell it's got to do with the closure rate between the drone and the subject coming at it. When the drone is flying fast it's looking out further, making decisions earlier. When it's going slower it's not looking out (ahead) near as far and something closing in on it appears in the avoidance system basically with little or no time to make a decision, especially if the other subject is moving faster. When both the drone and the subject are moving slow it moves out of the way as you would expect.

This is what I suspect is happening; the avoidance works in excess of 30mph, if the drone is flying 20mph and the other vehicle or person is coming at it at 10mph there's a 30mph closure rate, the avoidance knows the drone is flying @ 20 so it's avoidance is configured for a max of 20mph closure rate. Here comes something basically at 10mph higher then it expects and it doesn't get out of the way fast enough.

I've watched it react to obsticles at different speeds and it definately is looking further out the faster it's going.
Not sure that's accurate... the manual clearly stipulates "not avoid moving objects". It's not stating a speed variable, just states "moving".
Which is the observation I've experienced, not a factor of total speed between two opposing variables.

If you've experienced other, it may have been pretty slow, near static. That is optimistic news; although the position Skydio takes is "moving objects not avoided".

The "moving" statement doesn't state opposing or same direction... moving.

User Manual, Pg 4,
"Skydio 2 will not avoid people, cars, or other moving obstacles. You should
exercise extreme caution and good judgment when flying with other people
around. Never fly over crowds and always make sure that you have the height
floor activated if you know there are going to be other people around."
 

dougcjohn

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Avoiding means quick decisions that are based on some "still" early on camera capabilities. It would be nice if that happened but even military grade system aren't there yet.
Military sUAV and UAV don't rely solely on optical as the S2. Utilizing multiple systems, they can fly NOE in dead of night avoiding multiple objects both ground and air. Although there is a substantial price and technology difference. Many smaller hand launch sUAV aren't intended for low altitude and have zero OA on board.
 

skydioconvert

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Military sUAV and UAV don't rely solely on optical as the S2. Utilizing multiple systems, they can fly NOE in dead of night avoiding multiple objects both ground and air. Although there is a substantial price and technology difference. Many smaller hand launch sUAV aren't intended for low altitude and have zero OA on board.
What specific military UAV (that you're aware of) can autonomously avoid/disregard other moving objects once its locked on its target?
 

dougcjohn

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What specific military UAV (that you're aware of) can autonomously avoid/disregard other moving objects once its locked on its target?
Several are in development and have been in development for some time... that can detect multiple objects in route to target. Hadn't mentioned target acquisition, more OA. Targeting in weapons systems wasn't this discussion... my reply was multiple systems, beyound a "still" image (optical) are utilized on military UAV.
 

skydioconvert

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Several are in development and have been in development for some time... that can detect multiple objects in route to target. Hadn't mentioned target acquisition, more OA. Targeting in weapons systems wasn't this discussion... my reply was multiple systems, beyound a "still" image (optical) are utilized on military UAV.
Pretend for a moment that target acquisition means picking a target like you do with the SD2 and staying autonomously locked on to that target regardless of how many other moving objects enter the picture.

We all know the military pushes the envelop but given my above definition... in your eyes does the military ALREADY have a system capable of doing what I describe above?

If so please share with us what the name of those systems are....
 

Ridefreak

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Not sure that's accurate... the manual clearly stipulates "not avoid moving objects". It's not stating a speed variable, just states "moving".
Which is the observation I've experienced, not a factor of total speed between two opposing variables.

If you've experienced other, it may have been pretty slow, near static. That is optimistic news; although the position Skydio takes is "moving objects not avoided".

The "moving" statement doesn't state opposing or same direction... moving.

User Manual, Pg 4,
"Skydio 2 will not avoid people, cars, or other moving obstacles. You should
exercise extreme caution and good judgment when flying with other people
around. Never fly over crowds and always make sure that you have the height
floor activated if you know there are going to be other people around."
It's what I've experienced and almost all my flying is with multiple moving vehicles. If you look at the manual, they aren't going to stipulate anything regarding moving vehicles, it's a real risk to the drone, flat out no! I'm just describing how I have observed it reacting and it gets flown allot.
 
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dougcjohn

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It's what I've experienced and almost all my flying is with multiple moving vehicles. If you look at the manual, they aren't going to stipulate anything regarding moving vehicles, it's a real risk to the drone, flat out no! I'm just describing how I have observed it reacting and it gets flown allot.
Sounds good, you’re getting better behavior than I’ve noticed; which is great to hear! I’ll explore a little more, thanks for mentioning.

After reading that in manual, I was a bit surprised... did a quick experiment. Tracked my neighbor walking at slow rate. I walked toward S2 on one test, and on 2nd test, overtook my neighbor walking toward S2. On both, it behaved as I wasn’t an object to avoid.

With your outcomes, I’ll try a few more experiments.
 

Ridefreak

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I don't rely on that "feature" and I've also had it ignore others (nearby) which is disconcerning, probably what you saw also.
 

dougcjohn

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Pretend for a moment that target acquisition means picking a target like you do with the SD2 and staying autonomously locked on to that target regardless of how many other moving objects enter the picture.

We all know the military pushes the envelop but given my above definition... in your eyes does the military ALREADY have a system capable of doing what I describe above?

If so please share with us what the name of those systems are....
I haven’t been exposed to the most current, so that I’d have to conceid; although even back in my Pentagon days, years ago there were multiple platforms in development... many probably shelved, some technologies moved to other platforms, but it’s clear the technology existed then and advanced now... tracking multiple objects using multiple systems in aviation isn’t new.
 

dougcjohn

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I don't rely on that "feature" and I've also had it ignore others (nearby) which is disconcerning, probably what you saw also.
Beyound the limited "moving" OA, I've been extremly impressed... at 25-28 mph on bike, the ease at a avoiding wires, trees, lamp posts, etc is amazing. I went under a section of 4 large powerlines and 1 small line... as we approached I was a little concerned. It easily missed the 4 large and a very quick sudden reaction to dip barely missed the small one.
 

skydioconvert

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I haven’t been exposed to the most current, so that I’d have to conceid; although even back in my Pentagon days, years ago there were multiple platforms in development... many probably shelved, some technologies moved to other platforms, but it’s clear the technology existed then and advanced now... tracking multiple objects using multiple systems in aviation isn’t new.
Depending on year to year funding I've witnessed the same program evolutions in at least the NAVSEA development programs. Tracking multiple objects has been around forever... autonomously deciding how to react to the information is a whole other story on to itself.

Once I get my SD2 I really look forward to experimenting with the logic Skydio is building into the drone.
 

VEGASROBBI

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Military sUAV and UAV don't rely solely on optical as the S2. Utilizing multiple systems, they can fly NOE in dead of night avoiding multiple objects both ground and air. Although there is a substantial price and technology difference. Many smaller hand launch sUAV aren't intended for low altitude and have zero OA on board.

The SD2 does not rely solely on optical tracking, it's what separates it from most other follow drones(Anafi excluded). The SD2 uses a combination of optical and GPS for tracking. As mentioned by a SD rep in another thread if the SD2 encounters a false moving target it is a matter of time and separation that will bring it back to the intended target with the GPS device.

I have had a few occasions where my SD2 engaged a passing vehicle but shortly after stopped and reported "subject lost" or reacquired my vehicle.
 

dougcjohn

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The SD2 does not rely solely on optical tracking, it's what separates it from most other follow drones(Anafi excluded). The SD2 uses a combination of optical and GPS for tracking. As mentioned by a SD rep in another thread if the SD2 encounters a false moving target it is a matter of time and separation that will bring it back to the intended target with the GPS device.

I have had a few occasions where my SD2 engaged a passing vehicle but shortly after stopped and reported "subject lost" or reacquired my vehicle.
Correct, Optical & GPS; although GPS is not it’s OA... it’s used for tracking or returning to tracking. The GPS isn’t providing OA, the Optical is providing the OA and if needed moves away or detour, and if optical lost, again tracking to return to normal OA flight.

The OA is a plus except when not available. In low light without optics, won’t fly. The GPS can’t assume low light OA.
 

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