Jumping Ship??

Lifeisfun · Feb 15, 2020

Skyking said:
I'm a professional photographer doing mostly real estate. I have about 1100 "missions" and began 3 or 4 years ago with Phantom 4. My go-to up to now has been Mavic 2 Pro and Mavic Air. I use the Skydio 2 for those shots (like up a driveway to front door) where I what to concentrate on my photography and not obstacles in the way. I'm impressed with exposure accurance and color balance. I am not happy with lens distortions in still and video. I'm not talk about perspective distortion, I am talking barrel distortion etc. i.e. LENS distortion. As to range, I've never had any issue as I am always in VLOS. As to "stick landing as opposed to button landing, again, I have no problem. I FLY the drone over me and the descend to about 7 or 8 feet (2 feet or so above me), face the drone camera towards me and then, with my hand extended, press the button to land in my hand or land on my landing pad. So far I have not seen gimbal twitch. I've flown about 10 missions with it so far, about 80 minutes of flying. As to battery, I usually get 22 or so minutes of flight from my batteries typically being overhead to me and landing at 15 to 17%. I don't fly at high speed at all. I have "dual charger", 3 batteries and use a 90 volt charger to charge 2 batteries simultaneously. I am happy to answer any questions.

You mean 90 watt charger right?
What brand you use?

Skyking · Feb 15, 2020

I bought 2 that look identical. Both work great and have an INTEGRATED/attached cord:

Amazon.com: 87W/90W USB C Power Adapter, WEGWANG Type C Power Delivery PD Wall Charger 87W(Suitable with 61W, 45W, 30W and 12W) for MacBook Pro Air Newest, Matebook and Any Laptops or Smart Phones with USB C: Home Audio & Theater

And

Amazon.com: USB C Wall Charger, Nekteck 90W Power Delivery Laptop Charging Adapter with Built-in 6ft Type Cable for MacBook Pro/Air 2018, Dell XPS, Matebook, HP Spectre, iPad Pro 2018, Pixel, Galaxy (Upgraded): Medcursor Inc

About $30 each and for that price and the quality I see, you GOTTA have this.

As I said, they charghe 2 batteries SIMULTANEOUSLY in the "dual charger". ( not sequentially )

Sky

skydioconvert · Feb 15, 2020

Could you provide some of video(s) and stills you've taken (and minute points within the video) that show the barrel distortion you refer to?

Lon Denard · Feb 15, 2020

Okay...VLOS. People keep saying, so smugly btw, "I fly VLOS so range doesn't matter to me." I'm here to tell you that in a metro environment, the drone will drop signal just a couple hundred feet away. That VLOS! It's not completely unusable in town but it's not far off.

Also, they can't fix it with firmware or for the most part, with a different controller. That's what me and Mike have been trying to do with the controller mods. I've seen improvements and less random drops but that after doubling or even tripling the cost of the controller. The real problem is in the drone's design. The controller was obviously an afterthought. It'll take a complete reworking of the antenna array/receiver module to see any meaningful improvement.

Even with all of that, I'd be fine but it's what the drone does after it drops signal that's most alarming. It's unpredictable, sometimes it shoots up to max height, sometimes it comes straight back right through the middle of those cables, trees and wires you avoided on the way out, there's no telling what it'll do. Maybe it'll jump to the right and slam itself into the water, run straight up into power lines or take some goofy detour that'll get it stuck in some trees or that'll cause it to run out of battery before it can make it back. Who knows?

skydioconvert · Feb 15, 2020

Lon Denard said:
Okay...VLOS. People keep saying, so smugly btw, "I fly VLOS so range doesn't matter to me." I'm here to tell you that in a metro environment, the drone will drop signal just a couple hundred feet away. That VLOS! It's not completely unusable in town but it's not far off.

Also, they can't fix it with firmware or for the most part, with a different controller. That's what me and Mike have been trying to do with the controller mods. I've seen improvements and less random drops but that after doubling or even tripling the cost of the controller. The real problem is in the drone's design. The controller was obviously an afterthought. It'll take a complete reworking of the antenna array/receiver module to see any meaningful improvement.

Although I think that the "internal" antennas within the S2 are the biggest problem contributing to signal drops, I think Skydio had no choice but to sacrifice reception in order to give the "exterior" camera's the unobstructed view needed to let their mind boggling OA system work properly.

I guess in time, some combination of external antennas (the better choice) and modified firmware that takes into account exterior antennas might be possible but the advanced code needed to accomplish that isn't going to happen overnight.

Lon Denard · Feb 15, 2020

skydioconvert said:
Although I think that the "internal" antennas within the S2 are the biggest problem contributing to signal drops, I think Skydio had no choice but to sacrifice reception in order to give the "exterior" camera's the unobstructed view needed to let their mind boggling OA system work properly.

I guess in time, some combination of external antennas (the better choice) and modified firmware that takes into account exterior antennas might be possible but the advanced code needed to accomplish that isn't going to happen overnight.

Oh for sure! However, remember how the OA cameras can't see objects under 1/2"? Besides, my revision calls for a bump or stub barely larger than the camera bumps. A knub if you will, maybe extending an inch or so away from the body out the back, behind the battery. Make it out of silicone or rubber so it's flexible. They could even shape it like a fin. Heck, just doing an antenna line like a smart phone wouldn't have hurt... Just let the ant wire hang out the back like an RC car...

Personally, I'm guessing the radio board uses standard connections and you could install a short ant if you wanted to crack the cases. There are tons of stubby antenna for FPV drones that would be helpful.

Example:

2pcs FOXEER FPV Antenna Lollipop 5.8GHz RHCP 2.5Dbi Stubby Antenna SMA for FPV Racing Drone Fatshark Goggles TX RX Amazon.com: 2pcs FOXEER FPV Antenna Lollipop 5.8GHz RHCP 2.5Dbi Stubby Antenna SMA for FPV Racing Drone Fatshark Goggles TX RX: Toys & Games

Wolfwhoop T1 FPV 5.8GHz MMCX Whip Antenna for Wolfwhoop Q1-M Q4 Q7 Amazon.com: Wolfwhoop T1 FPV 5.8GHz MMCX Whip Antenna for Wolfwhoop Q1-M Q4 Q7: Toys & Games

skydioconvert · Feb 16, 2020

Lon Denard said:
Oh for sure! However, remember how the OA cameras can't see objects under 1/2"? Besides, my revision calls for a bump or stub barely larger than the camera bumps. A knub if you will, maybe extending an inch or so away from the body out the back, behind the battery. Make it out of silicone or rubber so it's flexible. They could even shape it like a fin. Heck, just doing an antenna line like a smart phone wouldn't have hurt... Just let the ant wire hang out the back like an RC car...

Personally, I'm guessing the radio board uses standard connections and you could install a short ant if you wanted to crack the cases. There are tons of stubby antenna for FPV drones that would be helpful.

Example:

2pcs FOXEER FPV Antenna Lollipop 5.8GHz RHCP 2.5Dbi Stubby Antenna SMA for FPV Racing Drone Fatshark Goggles TX RX Amazon.com: 2pcs FOXEER FPV Antenna Lollipop 5.8GHz RHCP 2.5Dbi Stubby Antenna SMA for FPV Racing Drone Fatshark Goggles TX RX: Toys & Games

Wolfwhoop T1 FPV 5.8GHz MMCX Whip Antenna for Wolfwhoop Q1-M Q4 Q7 Amazon.com: Wolfwhoop T1 FPV 5.8GHz MMCX Whip Antenna for Wolfwhoop Q1-M Q4 Q7: Toys & Games

Antenna theory/design is getting into a realm that's so specialized that I'm way out of my depth to talk very much about.

I've mentioned it in earlier posts that someone claimed Skydio is/was looking for an Antenna Designer so it seems they are already looking for ways to mitigate the reception problem.

P.S. Must have missed it some how but where did you learn that "OA cameras can't see objects under 1/2".

Lon Denard · Feb 16, 2020

skydioconvert said:
Antenna theory/design is getting into a realm that's so specialized that I'm way out of my depth to talk very much about.

I've mentioned it in earlier posts that someone claimed Skydio is/was looking for an Antenna Designer so it seems they are already looking for ways to mitigate the reception problem.

P.S. Must have missed it some how but where did you learn that "OA cameras can't see objects under 1/2".

In Skydio's warnings... Besides, they obviously don't react to the battery, props, gimbal, etc so there's a blind zone around the drone, an inner circle of ignorance, so to speak. I'm guessing the algorithm has layers to it's obstacle avoidance. As objects get farther away, they are increasingly ignored and conversely there must be inner layers that are ignored as well. You could easily test this by placing objects, children's blocks for example, on top of the drone until it reacts.

Besides, there are whip antenna that are the thickness of a coat hanger, OA isn't going to react to that or it can be programmed to ignore it if necessary. Like 360 cameras ignore their selfie sticks.

Here's a video that Kendall put out that kinda shows what I mean,

Ridefreak · Feb 16, 2020

OA can see down much smaller than 1/2" if the contrast is right, it usually isn't but there's videos out there that show the SD2 reacting to extremely small obstacles much smaller than 1/2" but in a situation where there's snow in the background of the scene outlining the object in high contrast. That normally not the situation so effectively LD is correct. Conversly the object can be larger then 1/2" and if the contrast isn't there it's OA can run into it. Think blue cables, blue bridges and low light.

Lon Denard · Feb 16, 2020

Ridefreak said:
OA can see down much smaller than 1/2" if the contrast is right, it usually isn't but there's videos out there that show the SD2 reacting to extremely small obstacles much smaller than 1/2" but in a situation where there's snow in the background of the scene outlining the object in high contrast. That normally not the situation so effectively LD is correct. Conversly the object can be larger then 1/2" and if the contrast isn't there it's OA can run into it. Think blue cables, blue bridges and low light.

Yep! It wasn't my intention to criticize or critique the Obstacle Avoidance system, I was merely illustrating why I believe a whip antenna a few inches long would be okay. I don't think the OA would see it both because of its limitations and it's proximity to the body of the drone.

skydioconvert · Feb 16, 2020

Lon Denard said:
In Skydio's warnings... Besides, they obviously don't react to the battery, props, gimbal, etc so there's a blind zone around the drone, an inner circle of ignorance, so to speak. I'm guessing the algorithm has layers to it's obstacle avoidance. As objects get farther away, they are increasingly ignored and conversely there must be inner layers that are ignored as well. You could easily test this by placing objects, children's blocks for example, on top of the drone until it reacts.

Besides, there are whip antenna that are the thickness of a coat hanger, OA isn't going to react to that or it can be programmed to ignore it if necessary. Like 360 cameras ignore their selfie sticks.

Here's a video that Kendall put out that kinda shows what I mean,

No doubt about it that having an "intelligent" OA system based on visual sensors introduces a whole new set problems.

Detecting an obstruction is one thing but then deciding what to do about is a whole new problem altogether.

VEGASROBBI · Feb 16, 2020

My SD2 has avoided branches smaller than 1/2" but there has to be a safety margin. Flying into the sun at guide or power wires is stupid but it will happen.

As far as range it's not just antennas and power it's the transmission. Lightbrige and Occusynch don't get range through antennas alone. Like long waves transmit further and around objects better than short waves.

There are many commercial long range protocols on the market now and power output can be changed through software. It should be easy for SD to get range if they choose, some hardware may be required.

Lon Denard · Feb 16, 2020

skydioconvert said:
No doubt about it that having an "intelligent" OA system based on visual sensors introduces a whole new set problems.

Detecting an obstruction is one thing but then deciding what to do about is a whole new problem altogether.

Yep! That's where that super computer comes in.

Skyking · Feb 16, 2020

skydioconvert said:
Could you provide some of video(s) and stills you've taken (and minute points within the video) that show the barrel distortion you refer to?

Please email me at [email protected] and I'll send you a dropbox link.

skydioconvert · Feb 16, 2020

Skyking said:
Please email me at [email protected] and I'll send you a dropbox link.

I'll need to set up a Dropbox account.... what's the size of the video file that I'll be viewing?

Cicada · Feb 16, 2020

I just received my S2 and kinda bummed about no one getting close to the advertised range. Unfortunately that type of fix will likely require an S3. I'm contemplating a return before opening.

Lon Denard · Feb 17, 2020

Cicada said:
I just received my S2 and kinda bummed about no one getting close to the advertised range. Unfortunately that type of fix will likely require an S3. I'm contemplating a return before opening.

I'd try to sell it un opened first if I were you. You have 30 days to think it over. The delays will only get worse with the situation in China. Heck guys were getting around $3000 for them unopened.

OverTwerked · Jul 23, 2020

Accelerated said:

Preach Brother.
Yep - totally agree...
Additionally to those items Mike listed, I'd like
1) the ability to pre-fetch maps for situations when you have no cellular / internet wifi (e.g. remote locations). It's crazy that you can only access maps once connected to skydio.
2) ability to program SfM / Ortho survey missions, WITHOUT DroneDeploy. Why can't Pix4Dcapture be used for mapping missions, seeing that they using Parrot controller.