Snowboarding with Skydio and it doesn’t follow down the slope

[Skydiosnowboarder]

I’ve been freeriding with Skydio 2 and use the beacon accessory. My problem is that while I get the drone to follow me (I use fixed track), it doesn’t follow me down the slope. I.e. it tracks and flies with me but keeps the same altitude, meaning that the distance grows very quickly if I’m going down a steep slope. I will initially put it say 5 yards behind and 5 yards above, but after a minute of going down it will be 5 yards behind and 50 yards above which isn’t great.

How can I get the drone to drop altitude with me so that the tracking distance remains fixed? Anything that I’m doing wrong?

 

[BlueHeeler]

I would try the Motion Track option if you have not done so, just make sure you are the "Subject". Experimentation helps one to be better acquainted with his/her Drone.

 

[Skydiosnowboarder]

I’m pretty confident I was the subject as the drone was following me (and the phone screen showed me as the subject as well), it just didn’t drop in altitude even though I was descending.

I can try motion track just in case it does this better, I’m not sure why it would do so but agree that it doesn’t hurt to try.

The other experiment I’m thinking of is to snowboard with the beacon in my hand, so I can continuously press the minus (-) button to decrease the distance as I go downhill. Not an ideal solution though especially if the terrain is challenging to ride.

Has anyone solved this issue successfully?

 

[kenmavic2zoom]

this should help:

 

[Skydiosnowboarder]

Thank you! Can you explain though why you would go with motion track instead of fixed track to get the drone to drop altitude as I ride downhill?

The official Skydio resources recommend fixed track for snowboarding and skiing (and other sports where one changes direction frequently) so would be super helpful to understand why motion track should work better here.

How to fly Skydio 2 in the snow

Here are 10 tips on how to fly Skydio 2 in the snow

www.skydio.com

 

[Ridefreak]

That's strange because there's quite a few SD videos out there of it following someone down a mtn. I wonder if it has anything to do with visual tracking and a solid white background. If the drone is close in it's not using the beacon's gps signal to establish it's location, it's relying on the camera to track you. Possibly there's a depth perception issue on snow with the camera and certain lighting conditions? Once it's distanced beyond the second tick it should switch to GPS tracking and then it's comparing the beacon's gps location to the drone's and shouldn't have the same problem if that's what it is. I've seen visual tracking suffer in certain lighting conditions.

 

[VEGASROBBI]

Dynamic altitude, as we called it, is a complex subject. I don't know the answer with the S2 but my S2 does follow down trails.

As far as I know the groundbreaking 3DR was the 1st to have dynamic altitude. The Solo used a barometer on Solo and the barometer from a device like an iPad. It actually worked well with altitude corrections smooth but a little laggy.

DJI briefly used baro based dynamic altitude in the P3 with GPS follow but it did not work well. DJI switched to Active Track which was optical follow and added VPS, a visual positioning system which had downward facing cameras to try and maintain AGL during tracking. DJI pushed VPS but I found it does not work well. It only worked at low speed and low altitude. It was found VPS worked best with high contrast grainy terrain. Homogenous landscapes like water and snow caused a lot of crashes with Phantoms diving into the water or ground.

I found baro based dynamic altitude the best. The Yuneec Typhoon H was awesome, fast and the Wizard Wand had a baro built in, it was similar to the S2 beacon; I searched and could not find any information on baro's installed in the S2 making me think it is downward facing camera based.

The Halo drone had great dynamic altitude. The drone, watch, tracking puck and controller all had baro's. Prior to flight you had calibrate the altitude difference between the drone and device, it was very smooth and accurate; I could hold AGL + or - 4 feet at speed.

Anyway sorry this is not an answer but next time I go out I will monitor my S2's dynamic altitude going downhill, I know it can be a little jumpy - because it's depending on visual only?

But as mentioned Skydio should have a handle on this maybe submit a ticket.

 

[Skydiosnowboarder]

Thank you! This could be related to the root cause. I tried again over the weekend and as with the last time the drone didn’t drop altitude with me when tracking and then ultimately lost tracking as the vertical distance grew (GPS tracking did not kick in).

However, when I stopped mid-slope I had the added issue that I could not get the drone down even with manually using my phone to press down on the height controls. It just refused to budge. Pressing return to phone / beacon got it on top of me but at a height of 200-300 yards. The only way I was able to retrieve it was to press land and this then got it to ignore obstacle avoidance and to come down (which took quite a while from this height).

So maybe the problem is indeed with the altitude sensing?

 

[baksideDisasterFlicks]

I film a lot of backcountry snowboarding, I suggest first you use fixed track. That will stop wild swings of the drone that you get from snowboarders rapidly changing direction. I've found that if I start tracking from either 10 or 2pm position it tends to deal with the altitude drop better. From behind at 6pm it seems to produce the behavior you describe more often. It can't seem to keep up with the rate of decent and speed ramp of the rider. On steep slopes I'll start at 3 or 9pm depending on the angle of the sun to get best shot and have had pretty good success. That will actually help capture the steepness of the slope better. I always use beacon, alternating between the 2nd or 3rd height.

Like others suggested just experiment. Worst part is when drone gets stuck uphill from you and you have to retrieve it. So set a home point at the base of the slope you are descending just in case.

 

[Skydiosnowboarder]

I film a lot of backcountry snowboarding, I suggest first you use fixed track. That will stop wild swings of the drone that you get from snowboarders rapidly changing direction. I've found that if I start tracking from either 10 or 2pm position it tends to deal with the altitude drop better. From behind at 6pm it seems to produce the behavior you describe more often. It can't seem to keep up with the rate of decent and speed ramp of the rider. On steep slopes I'll start at 3 or 9pm depending on the angle of the sun to get best shot and have had pretty good success. That will actually help capture the steepness of the slope better. I always use beacon, alternating between the 2nd or 3rd height.

Like others suggested just experiment. Worst part is when drone gets stuck uphill from you and you have to retrieve it. So set a home point at the base of the slope you are descending just in case.

Thank you, super helpful! I will be freeriding again this weekend so will definitely try the above.

Dumb question: I'm not sure what you mean by alternating between the 2nd or 3rd height on the beacon, can you help explain?

My usual process is that I connect the beacon to the phone and then use the phone to launch the drone, put it into position, select fixed track, and select me as the person to track from the phone screen.

 

[Ridefreak]

My usual process is that I connect the beacon to the phone and then use the phone to launch the drone, put it into position, select fixed track, and select me as the person to track from the phone screen.

You might want to connect the beacon to the drone instead of the phone when using both, then the phone to the beacon, The beacon has a longer range then the phone so you'd want it to be the communications device talking to the drone. When I power up, and connect the beacon to the drone then open the app it sees the beacon's connection and instructs the pilot to connect the phone to the beacon. I only connect the phone directly with the app when I'm flying close in and need to pilot the drone instead of using follow.

 

[Skydiosnowboarder]

You might want to connect the beacon to the drone instead of the phone when using both, then the phone to the beacon, The beacon has a longer range then the phone so you'd want it to be the communications device talking to the drone. When I power up, and connect the beacon to the drone then open the app it sees the beacon's connection and instructs the pilot to connect the phone to the beacon. I only connect the phone directly with the app when I'm flying close in and need to pilot the drone instead of using follow.

I think the only way to use both is for the phone to be connected to the beacon, so even if I start the phone first then as soon as I turn on the beacon and it connects to the drone the phone app will then ask me to connect the phone to the beacon. I then use the phone to fly the drone but as far as I know it does this via the beacon's connection.

 

[baksideDisasterFlicks]

Thank you, super helpful! I will be freeriding again this weekend so will definitely try the above.

Dumb question: I'm not sure what you mean by alternating between the 2nd or 3rd height on the beacon, can you help explain?

My usual process is that I connect the beacon to the phone and then use the phone to launch the drone, put it into position, select fixed track, and select me as the person to track from the phone screen.

On the beacon at the bottom you have the + -. If you select those it'll adjust the following 'range' which roughly is altitude. There're four distances. I generally set it to 3 for best results. I'll start at two if the slope has mellow pitch at the beginning of the run then pitches off pretty good as that tends to put the drone in the 3rd position anyways and gets some good perspective at the opening of the shot..

 

[Skydiosnowboarder]

Ok, thanks. I’ve usually set the range with the phone but will try the beacon the next time to see if it makes a difference.

I was out again yesterday on relatively mellow terrain (15-25% degrees) and now hand-launched the phone with the beacon (I read somewhere this might help with establishing the GPS connection) and put the drone at three o’clock in fixed track mode.

The drone still had trouble descending with me, so the following distance very quickly grew from a vertical perspective. When I then slowed down to a crawl the drown descended to the original following distance and altitude I had set it at.

This makes me think that the reason for the issue is actually that the drone’s max descending speed is not high enough for it to follow. So unless 1) one is riding very slowly and/or 2) is on flat terrain which doesn’t require the drone to descend you can’t use the drown to film skiing / snowboarding.

I haven’t found the spec for Skydio 2’s descending speed, but for Mavic 3 it’s 13.4 mph while the max horizontal speed is 47 mph. I.e. there is a big difference in the descending speed vs horizontal speed. It could be also that the follow mode where the drone also needs to process where the subject is going and can’t just straightline further slows the drone down.

I’d be curious for any links where Skydio has successfully followed a snowboarder / skier down a 15+ degree slope, my conclusion at the moment is that the drone isn’t fast enough to do it (without ending up at 100+ yards above the subject) but I’d be thrilled to be proven wrong.

 

[baksideDisasterFlicks]

Ok, thanks. I’ve usually set the range with the phone but will try the beacon the next time to see if it makes a difference.

I was out again yesterday on relatively mellow terrain (15-25% degrees) and now hand-launched the phone with the beacon (I read somewhere this might help with establishing the GPS connection) and put the drone at three o’clock in fixed track mode.

The drone still had trouble descending with me, so the following distance very quickly grew from a vertical perspective. When I then slowed down to a crawl the drown descended to the original following distance and altitude I had set it at.

This makes me think that the reason for the issue is actually that the drone’s max descending speed is not high enough for it to follow. So unless 1) one is riding very slowly and/or 2) is on flat terrain which doesn’t require the drone to descend you can’t use the drown to film skiing / snowboarding.

I haven’t found the spec for Skydio 2’s descending speed, but for Mavic 3 it’s 13.4 mph while the max horizontal speed is 47 mph. I.e. there is a big difference in the descending speed vs horizontal speed. It could be also that the follow mode where the drone also needs to process where the subject is going and can’t just straightline further slows the drone down.

I’d be curious for any links where Skydio has successfully followed a snowboarder / skier down a 15+ degree slope, my conclusion at the moment is that the drone isn’t fast enough to do it (without ending up at 100+ yards above the subject) but I’d be thrilled to be proven wrong.

Here's couple of my snowboard vids, I set time right to some Skydio shots, probably this first one is kind of shot you are looking for?
Couple shots from some of my vids: